Hey guys, welcome to a special edition of the HVAC ADHD podcast. I'm your host
Jeremy Begley and today I'm joined by Bethany Sinsky and Nate Natelli from the Building Performance Association. We're
talking conference history, industry evolution, and how this thing started way back in 1986 and why BPA's event has
become one of the real educational heavy hitters in the building performance world. We also to get into something I'm
fired up about right now, and that's the growing collusion of HVAC, home performance, electrification, and real
business opportunities. In plain English, the walls between these industries are falling down, and that's
a very good thing. So, if you've ever wondered where the conference comes from, why it matters, and why HVAC
contractors ought to pay attention, this one is for you. Let's roll. Hey guys,
welcome to a special edition of the HBAC ADHD vodcast. I'm your host Jeremy
Begley. I'm here today with Bethany Sinsky and Nate Natali of the BPA
Building Performance Association. We're going to talk a little bit about the upcoming conference and the history of
it, how I got involved, how they got involved, and a bunch of good stuff. So, I'll let them introduce yourself and
then we'll jump into it. Bethany, take it away. Hi, everyone. And I'm Bethany Sinsky.
I'm director of education and events with the Building Performance Association.
I'm Nate Natali. I'm the chief operating officer at the Building Performance Association. Good to be with you,
Jeremy. Hey, good to have you both. So, tell me a little bit about um each of you, how
you got involved with the organization, how long you've been there, what your history is with it. Um just take us
through it. Like what what what do you know that we don't know?
I could start since I've been here just a little bit longer than Bethany. She was my very first hire and has been with
me ever since. I've been here just over 15 years. Uh I started
I was in education uh adult ed. Um I was a teacher, got into adult education, got
into association work around professional development uh for adult learners. and I kind of the organization
I was with just didn't really align with a lot of my sort of values and just what
I wanted to be doing um in general. I'd never heard of home performance at all
even though this conference started in my backyard almost quite literally up over the hill and uh yeah came across
this this this job uh basically coming in to support the person who was doing
what Bethany does now and just sort of um worked my way up. We had a bunch of
different turnover. Our organization has changed names. We're now on our third iteration since Bethany have been here.
Uh ACI affordable comfort. to the home performance coalition and now the building performance association. So
we've seen a lot of change and and uh in the industry as well as in our in our association organizations and uh well
except for us we've been here through a whole bunch. So yeah, it's a little bit about how I got here.
and Bethany. Yeah, kind of similarly to Nate, um I
wasn't aware of the industry too much, but I had been uh working towards a
sustainability degree. Um and there was a lot of overlap in what we were
learning at my program and um energy efficiency and energy reduction efforts.
So, um when I first started, I learned a whole lot about the industry. Um it's,
you know, it was first based in Pittsburgh here, um which is where I got my degree, my um sustainability degree.
Uh but now we're we're a national company, national organization. So um we
have folks all over the country, not just here in Pittsburgh. So good to be here.
And what what just so the audience knows, what was the first year the conference actually happened? Like when
did when did AC it was first ACI, right? That was the first name of it. And when what was the first year the ACI
conference was put on? Yeah, that was uh the affordable comfort conference. So it was a conference
before ACI. ACI was the organization that formed um just a you know 10 years later or so.
Uh but yeah, it was 1986 was the first year. So this is our 40th anniversary this year. 40th. And you guys got involved that in
what year roughly? Uh 2011 was my first one and I believe Bethany 2012 was was
yours. Correct. Yep. Yeah. And by that time were they calling it ACI?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So 2012 that's the first time I ever attended the
conference. Uh was Baltimore, correct? That's that was a Baltimore conference. Yeah. And it
was um Yeah. And I I had never knew like I was in the industry but I did not know about
the conference until I got on Twitter and I was interacting with you know other people and um actually what got me
out there was Peter Tro from uh Energy Circle was doing a roundt on marketing
and he him and I had interacted on Twitter. We had never met. That's the first time we ever met in real life too
was at that conference as well but we had never met and he's like hey you know you I had a website up. We had
Cincinnati Energy Solutions was our company at the time. And um he said, "Hey, why don't you you pretty good at
marketing, you're on Twitter all the time. Why don't you come out here and talk about it?" And then so I ended up
attending and presenting the very first time um I ever even knew the thing existed. So it was quite the experience
for me. Throwing you into it. Threw me into the fire. Yep. Exactly. But it was a cool fire to be in. like I
met like you know when you first go to these things this is one of the cool um pieces of it I think for anybody is like
some people are like a little bit celebrities you know in the industry they're bigger names you see them you interact with them all the time and then
you can go to these these type of events and not only is there great knowledge base because I've always said this
conference like I compare them there's I won't like throw out names but there's other industry conferences that I've
been to and some of them are what I call full of fluff a lot more because a lot
of times um sponsors can pay to do sessions and stuff like that. But from
my experience at this conference, it's always been highly educational. I never went into a session that I didn't leave
with something valuable. And I um also never went into a conference or a
session and came out of it like, man, I can't believe they let that guy up there, which has happened at some of the
other conferences where people pay to get up there and just talk about a product. the entire time instead of
bringing any any real knowledge. So I do value that about the way that this actual conference is ran. Um so take us
do you guys know like from from the transition like when did it stop being affordable comfort? When did it become
ACI? When did it come become BPA? What prompted those name changes? Like you
guys have any insight into like that little bit of history there?
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um so when ACI became the home performance coalition um
you know we had there had been a basically our industry had all of the
different pieces of traditional trade or industry association as separate entities. You had BPI, you had a, you
know, doing credentials, you had ACI doing, you know, conference in education. You had home energy magazine.
Uh, you had even, um, NHPC, which is who we merged with, which was a sort of
advocacy group, and that's kind of involved in our advocacy work that we do now. Um, including their founder as our
as our chief policy officer. Um, so there's just a a big hunger. was pushed,
you know, by funders really like, hey, we can't give give all of you y'all um money all the time. Like, it would be
better if you came together with one ask. Uh so the NHPC transition around
2016 um would have been the first one and then in 2019 we became Building
Performance Association and and additionally I I neglected to mention efficiency first.
some of your listeners might be might remember. I was on the board. Yeah, I was on the board for a while there. Yeah, that is a good that is a
good one to bring up for sure. They were straight policy, but it definitely played into everything for sure. Yeah.
Right. And that that came up um around a particular piece of legislation that was going to be sort of um groundbreaking
for the industry that that fell a little bit short, but that was the that was the piece. And I think that that led into,
you know, some of the things we've been working on recently. But again, the the BPA move was was to try to bring more of
these organizations in. So we, you know, we ended up acquiring the assets of of uh of efficiency first as well as the
magazine and so it's all come together for the most part. So you were saying that you brought it
all the assets under one umbrella. That is interesting. I don't even think I realized. So BPI is also part of BPA
now. So is that what you were saying? You were not saying that. Okay. you're the one.
Tell us the sort of the um hierarchy of what how that that's all set up.
Yeah. So, you know, we have um publication which has sort of become our
you know, an e version of what home energy magazine was, you know, sort of um you know, but but more timely, you
know, that was that was more of a period periodical type publication. uh you know we have you know a big advocacy policy
side of our organization now which was the NHPC part obviously the member the member component is what efficiency
first did. So we have all those pieces under building performance association including the education and conference
work that ACI uh you know started and then BPI remains separate you know with
the credentials and and and such. So sort of have that that firewall which is probably a good thing. um you know we
align really well and they're great to work with and provide their cus at all of our events and and that sort of thing. So
yeah that's where we are now. So where do you that's so we sort of
talked about how where the conference came from and it continues to evolve. So how do you guys see it in fitting into
today's world today's landscape the industry landscape interacting with you know the new construction world and
everything else like how how does BPA fit in today?
Yeah, I mean I I think we keep evolving. Um was our history and I think will be
our future to adapt to what the contractors need and want. And you know
we focus mostly on residential existing residential buildings um with some
multif family in there as well and and small commercial. Um and I think it's
it's probably you know you mentioned that your first conference was um in 2012 talking about marketing and you
know if you look back at that session what you talked about that you needed to know about marketing then is probably completely different than the marketing
landscape now and you know bringing in more discussions of of AI and how that
can um impact the the industry and and businesses and operational efficiency
and things like that. Um and then also you know just different diagnostic
equipment that that has been developed that um you know you can learn more
about and things like virtual audits and you know all the changes that that you just need to know um workforce issues
that continue to to change as we need to bring more people you know into the trades and educate people about the
industry that exists and the importance of you know how is the system within other trades. um like you said, getting
to know the um the HVAC industry and and the home performance industry, building
performance industry and and how they can overlap and intersect to kind of both bring more to the to the forefront
and um help people run their businesses a little bit better. Yeah, absolutely. And I you bring up our
conversation earlier about the HVAC industry. I do feel like this is the time for the HVAC industry and home
performance to sort of come together in a way that they never have before. Um, there's a lot of new interest from the
HVAC side, uh, from the younger technicians that are really getting into the geeking, what we call the geeking
out side of HVAC where they're really trying to understand what they're doing in a way that techs uh, didn't before.
And the owners are sort of like from our generation now a little bit. there there's a little bit of aging out going
on. So, um the they're allowing a little more leeway for these younger guys to sort of explore some of this stuff
instead of just turn and burn boxes all the time. And I think the public's demanding it a little bit more now. We
have a more educated public with the internet and AI the way it is. Like you could ask AI anything and you know
whether it's right, wrong, or otherwise, you're going to have 10 things to say to somebody uh when they walk in your
house. So, like the these guys really got to be up on what what is right and what's wrong because if not, they're
going to have a hard time having conversations with some of these uh homeowners. So, I think like all that stuff and we talked about private equity
now has more eyes and more money on HVAC. So, they're looking for uh new ways to grow uh those revenue streams
there too that are inside the HVAC industry. So, all that stuff plays well
um for home performance and it has a lot of the younger HVAC eyes on home performance and I think that this
conference really um is going to bloom in the next few years uh and grow into
sort of you know a a secondary housing for the HVAC guys. They have some of their own conferences and they have a
what the uh HVAC uh school building um sh crap let me say this right uh HVAC
school um symposium training symposium that Brian our puts on every year that
sort of like the I always uh um liken it to sort of like Joe Stebrick's building
science camp for the HVAC industry. It's a high high-end conference with a nice trade show and stuff like that, but they
don't have um the history or the um
ability as far as like reach and funding and stuff that you guys do to be able to really put on the type of educational
pure home performance with HVAC built into it. um training symposiums that um
or training sessions I should say that the home performance the BPA ACI that
conference has been able to bring um over the years. So I'm really I'm really excited for the future of this
particular conference. You know that um I'm sorry Beth did I
interrupt you? No, go ahead. Oh, yeah. The uh you know, the HVAC contracting business um nut, if
you will, is like one we've been trying to crack for for quite a while. Uh just knowing the opportunity that's there,
you know, for home performance, for you know, building science principles being incorporated um into that work, you
know, trying to to get the word out that we could be a professional home for for those folks who are looking to to maybe
take it to the next level. and you know get out of the box swapping or or however you want to put it. Um it's just
been a it's been a challenge because you know just to penetrate that space has been it's just it's tough. So we love
being on here. We love being able to talk about it. Um, you know, we're at a time too where we're we're we're sort of
doubling down a bit on letting the the our our traditional contractor base,
which are the the home performance contracting businesses, which um, you
know, just making sure they know that their professional home is at our conference. Quick shout out to the 2026 National
Home Performance Conference and Trade Show from the Building Performance Association. If you're into HVAC,
building science, electrification, or home performance, this is one of the best places in the country to see what's
actually happening in the industry. HVAC ADHD listeners can get $250 off the
registration using our code. Go to nhpc26.orgvac-h
when you register. you know, we have this delicate balance. Um, we have a huge amount of
weatherization agency folks who who attend. Uh, building science is building
science, you know, but um, at the same time, I think the contractors looking for just more support on their business
development and that sort of thing. Um, you know, and they they're just looking
for more of that from us. And so we're working on some things that we hope will also translate to to HVAC companies, you
know, being like, hey, that's they have all this good technical information, but they're also supporting businesses.
So hopefully, you know, we make some progress there. Yeah, I think like you make a good point
about the business model and I think that right now there's probably a few different business models out there in the HVAC space that incorporate home
performance that have not been there previously. Um there are some very boutique contractors that um not only
are very proficient and high-end on the HVAC side as far as like um just techn
using technology to the fullest advantage and understanding inverters and stuff like that, but then they're also like little turning in turning
themselves into little home performance gurus who understand the home side of it too. And that's like a boutique offering
that's out there. Then you have the HVAC company that has added like the not the
guy that I just described is usually a one guy that you know is doing very specific services for people under his
own umbrella and they you know maybe are a little science project type um projects but nonetheless very very
high-end high performance projects that may not go on in a typical um my heirs
out situation. you know, this is these are people that want their house to work a certain way and they're paying somebody to come in and make that happen
for them. And there's usually one this, you know, that that business model is like, hey, I'm this guy that can do this
this type of service and only this type of service for you. And that's what I specialize in. Then there is the HVAC
companies that have trucks on the road and they're doing typical HVAC service
and they're doing full replacement and they're doing new construction, but they also want to be able to serve the
clients that want to be served a little bit better and have some guys in their shop that do have a full understanding
of home performance and allow those particular guys to use it even though that's not the focus of their business.
And then there's the other guys who it is. are a big shop and it's they're what we called it back in the day home
performance contractors. They are that model where it's HVAC ccentric but home
performance contracting is the way they do business. So like there's a wide range out there and it's probably even
some other steps in between that that I have my you know I didn't and touch on but in my mind those are the three
different operators right now and I don't think we had as much of that in
the home performance space back when I was actively involved running a home performance company. It was sort of like
there was friction in the industry. The HVAC guys are on this side. Home performance was on this side. These
ideas could not intermingle with these ideas. And if you were doing something that was even had the word home
performance in it, a lot of the guys ran the other way and then you know the Obama era sort of killed some of that
because there was so much money getting dumped into home performance that a lot of the HVAC guys had no choice but to
participate. So then that opened it up to the the HVAC industry on that side of things a little more and I think some of
that has trickled down also into uh where we are now. So, I say all that to say I think we're in a good space for
home performance and HBAC to have a natural marriage with technology and private equity money and everything that
that is driving it toward those two um industries towards each other. And it's the science behind it. The house has
always been the house. It's a whole house and all the stuff interacts. So, as soon as guys have aha moments out in
the field, they're never going to be able to unknow that stuff, you know? So, like as long as they keep learning,
they're going to they're going to understand um either by accident or on purpose what is uh actually going on in
a home. So, yeah, I got on a soap box there, but
yeah, I'm passionate about the the HVAC I'm excited. Let me say this. I'm excited about where the HVAC world is
and the home performance world is right now because it's something we've worked a couple you know myself and several
other people in the industry have really worked hard to sort of bring that together and it's just really nice to
see it actually happening now like on a scale that I didn't really ever think would be possible
for sure and you know we when we look at our what we think of our most successful contractors a lot of them like in our in
our orbit if you you know, they start they they are HBAC contractors who've incorporated the
whole house approach. And so we see that model and you mentioned that it was like the third the third uh option when you
were talking like that's that's the ideal because you're you're in the homes, you know, you have service agreements, you're, you
know, trusted. It's just it's just ideal. You have the business infrastructure. Uh, and then, you know,
this opportunity, the the whole house opportunity allows for new business lines and and we've seen, you know, some
companies like like Halco and upstate New York, they're just, you know, start out HVAC and they do everything you can
possibly imagine, all of it based in the whole house approach. Uh, every renewable, every service you can think
of in a in a house. And, uh, you know, companies like that are a great model. We we just, you know, we just need the
opportunity to put those in front of more HBAC business. I think that type of company is going to become more organic. I really do. Like
it used to be like, hey, that's the standout. Halo is a standout. Everybody uses them for the like the example of what you can do with HVAC and home
performance and those guys have owned it um in a way that not a lot of HVAC companies chose to do. And I think that
now the like with the interest that we have from the ground up, you're just going to see companies that get started.
They're just going to be that. And then the one thing we haven't talked about is like the heat pump and the electrification side of it. Like that
push in itself lends itself to own performance because my god, if you're putting a heat pump on a bad house, I
feel sorry for the rest of your um existence owning that customer because it's going to be a bad time. So I, you
know, like there it's there's just a lot of great stuff pushing it that way right now. And I think, you know, this
conference is just one piece that can really serve this industry in a way that it maybe hasn't before.
Yeah. And I think what's what's great about the conference and some of the sessions is that it's led some of the
sessions are led by contractors who are really open about sharing their their journeys of adding business lines. um
what's failed. So like when they made mistakes, maybe they should have done something differently so that somebody
else can learn from what they experienced. And it's not really they don't hold too many cards close to their
chest, so to speak. They they they'll they're open with sharing what's worked and what hasn't. It's, you know, just
trying to um help everyone else succeed to so it's a really great opportunity to
to hear, you know, what what Halco did that that worked and they'll tell you what what didn't and um maybe have some
some uh shared commiseration over some failures, but uh um it's kind of
refreshing that um that the contractors are so open and talking about that in their business models.
It's super important for the growth of other companies to hear that stuff from those guys firsthand. Like there's no
better lesson than what somebody else did and why it worked or why it didn't work. And if people are willing to share
that then um that is a gold that you cannot get just out in the street
talking to somebody or you know even from your own experience. Sometimes somebody's going to went through something slightly different than the
way you went through it and you might have a little aha moment of your own where you're like, "Wow, I never thought about doing it that way and that might
work and we're going to go back and fix that." So, yeah, I agree. Like that is one of the awesome things about having
this type of conference led by contractors that can get up there and share their real world experiences and
uh knowledges. For sure.
All right. Well, um, we're running up on our time, so you got you got any parting thoughts? I usually in my sessions, I
say, "Hey, if the world ended today and you had to leave behind one piece of advice for people who are restarting
society, what would you paint on the wall?" So, let's I'll throw that out there to you guys. It could be home
performance. It could be your own personal philosophy. It could be anything. But, I've never ended a session without asking that question.
So, I'm going to throw it out there for you as well.
Yeah, that that's a that's a tough one. Um, I'd say, you know,
we've learned a lot of things postcoid. Um, but being able to gather people
together is is a huge gift for us now. Um, and you know, I think conferences
are a great way to to do that. And obviously education is really important to moving yourself forward as a as a
human being. Um, but also, you know, home performance-wise, HVAC wise as a as
a company. Um, so to take those opportunities to to convene and network
and hang out with with your friends, meet new people and learn from their experiences. Um, and you know, I don't
think we can we can take that for for granted after uh after COVID. So, we're we're happy to be able to gather
everyone again. 1,000% agree. Super powerful. Thank you.
Heck of an answer, Bethany. Um, yeah. I mean, that's, you know, the part about
getting together, you know, I riff on that a second. You know, when COVID happened and and we had two uh virtual
conferences and we had to stand the one up, the first one, so quickly and it was just so chaotic and it worked. I mean,
thank good. We're still here. um because you know it wasn't a guarantee in those
days and you know there was coming out of there there was such a emphasis on on
the virtual option having you know there has to be a component every time people get together and you know we thought
that at first too and then we started to realize that man yeah people just need
to get together it's it's it's instinctual you know we we we crave community we crave camaraderie uh so in
the business of gathering people But that's that's going to not go away. And in fact, I you know, we've come to
realize that even a virtual component to something in person sort of pulls away from from both, you know, it pulls there
there is a place for virtual learning. I'm a big proponent of it. But I think those things are are best when they're
their own things. Um you know, so it's so great to be able to be a convenor. We
love that part of our jobs. And also, you know, if I'm going to restart society, I'm going to being being from
Pittsburgh, I'm going to I'm going to riff on Mr. Rogers a little bit and talk about the three things that are uh, you
know, lead to success. Kindness, kindness, and kindness.
100%. Love it. All right, thank you guys. Um, we're going to try to roll this episode out
here very shortly in the next few days. We're going to edit it down and then um
get it out bottom of this week, top of next week. So, I'm excited um to get it
out there in front of people and I thank you both very much for joining us today and and and telling everybody the
history of the conference and hopefully we can get some more people attending.
Thank you, Jeremy. We we didn't get an opportunity to talk about your session that you'll be doing at the conference
if you would like to discuss that. And we'll also be having some podcast sessions just like this. So, kind of
like a a modern-day fireside chat where you can be live in the room with others
when they're doing their podcasts. So, true. We should have brought that stuff up. Yeah. Uh, so I'm doing First off,
the podcast thing is huge. I love it. This is like one of my favorite things that you guys are doing. So, um, other
conferences have done it. It's not like a new concept, but it is awesome that you guys are being able to incorporate it into your conference. And I'm excited
to have HBAC ADHD vodcast be one of the inaugural um podcasters. And we are the
session I'm trying to do for that. I need to get get it together. But I um I'm trying to get one uh attendee that
HVAC contractor that has went to the conference for a long time and then someone who's new to sit down and sort
of talk like what do you want out of the conference? what do you usually get out of it back and forth like that? So, from an HVAC, you know, pure HVAC
perspective. So, um that's what we're trying to do for the podcast session. If you guys have any um guests that you
would want to throw my way that you're like, "Hey, these people are attending. They might be great." Um I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to wrangle up a few
people that'll be there for that conversation. Uh the session that I'm doing is permanent load reduction, the
hidden driver of HVAC sales. And this is based on we have a training that we do.
It's an 8-hour training. It's called um permanent load reduction through the eyes of conduit tech or through the eyes
of LAR technology. If you're using Amply or something like that, we just I've always used conduit tech. I'm super
friendly with those guys and um help them a little bit in the beginning. So, we sort of branded with that. But there's other softwares coming online.
There's one called Ample. There's one called Cool Calcs that's going to be it's been around for a while as an
online software, but they're adding LAR to that I heard. So, like there's a few of them now that have the technology
available, but the idea is to um be able to use the as we talked about a little earlier to be able to use the load
calculation as a road map to create exposing thermal deficiency of of the
home. And then a being able to add those into your pure sales if you want to or make a commission off of having somebody
else come back and do the measures. And then B, being able to drive your own sales and your own um uh KPIs from a
general sense using the home performance KPIs as drivers for those. And so that's really the main part of the conversation
is like how does that affect the business that you already do? Like if you start doing these things, how does
it help this business that you already have? You know, how does it amplify that? And how does it help you make more
money with the stuff that you already have? So, that's really like what we're trying to um cut put what we're trying
to get across to people as well as the fact that we're in a world where it doesn't take too much to add this stuff
on. Like now's the time to start adding it into your your business um workflows because it does not add that much and
the value add for your company is tremendous. So, that's sort of the gist of what we are going to be talking about
there. Yeah, we're excited for it and and hopefully your listeners will come out
and and hear you in person in in Columbus in April. I'm hoping so, too. We're going to keep talking to them about it and hopefully
we get some of them. Um, I think Katie was saying a couple of people have used the code already. So, um, we will flash
the discount code up on the screen here for you guys and it'll be in the show notes and it already is in the notes of
other videos that we've made to promote it. So, or if you know me, inbox me. I'll give you the code. Either way, you
can get it from me and you can get a healthy the biggest discount out there. They're allowing us to offer through um
this podcast. So, definitely uh take advantage of it. And that's um you know, the whole the
whole idea around the rate and I was talking earlier about about making an
effort doubling down to contractors to say come check us out. That's what this is all about. Um, and certainly the H H
H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H HVAC contractors and your audience are the ones, you know, absolutely. We believe they're gonna they're going
to be the ones that help scale this thing. So I believe it, too. I 100% believe it.
All right, so really I'll see you guys later this time. Bethany, thank you very much for bringing that was super important to get that in. I'm so glad
you brought that up. Thank you. Great conversation. If the um that random Mr. Rogers thing
doesn't fit. Feel free to cut that out. No, it'll fit. We'll fit it. I was thinking about society and
starting society over and I'm like, man, we got to be we Yeah. No, it's awesome, man. That's why we do it. Like everybody's advice is is
counts and is great. We've had like you go back and listen to some of the podcasts, like people say some cool stuff when you put them on the spot like
that. So, that's a pretty cool little concept. We didn't get to talk about how we were in a fantasy football league together
one time. We were Peter's the one with Peter and all those guys. It went on for a few years. I mean, we
did that thing for a while and then I just I don't know what happened. It fell apart, I guess. But yeah, that was good times though back
then. You know, the industry was a different place at that time. Mhm. For sure.
Second time ever playing fantasy football, I believe. So, I I'm trying to put together a um Twitter
round table of all the people that started at home performance that were on Twitter. So, I'm trying to do a session with like me, Peter, Allison, Carl
Seville, and a few other people that were like around on in the Twitter days because that's where we all met at. And
that's where really I started like learning home performance. There was like Twitter groups and about specific
topics and building performance and stuff like that. And then it sort of like migrated to LinkedIn and that whole
community was in the BPI Resnet group that Dave Butler ran and now it's just out in LinkedIn, you know. So, yeah.
Yeah, we actually brought that group in. We had a um a home performance forum. I was on there for a while. Just never
really took off like the the LinkedIn group did. Like there was not the same intera I mean there are some even to
this day I think there's some people on there talking you know home performance or whatever but like it just never
turned in. Like I think that community mostly lives on LinkedIn now to be honest with you. Like that's where everybody's interacting not these days
just out in public space of LinkedIn. Yeah, it was one of those things, you
know, um just trying to trying to pull these forms together, but they were just the organic nature of where they were at
first were just better, you know? Yeah. It's just is where people go. Like that is what it's all, you know, like if
you build it, they will come. Yeah. To a certain extent. If they were going to go there already, yeah, they're going to come. But like if they're not headed
that direction, you might have an empty building. I don't, you know. So,
Correct. All right. Well, I'll let you guys go. We'll talk soon. Thank you very much. Yeah. Well, CSC in your home state of
Ohio. Indeed. That is another exciting thing I should have brought up is, hey, it's in Ohio in And that's one thing that I'm
super excited. I like was telling uh Katie like it's never been that close to Cincinnati before. Too bad I don't live
there anymore because I'm in Knoxville now. So, but Oh, okay. For the past five years, I've been in Knoxville, Tennessee. Yeah.
Oh, nice. But yeah, I'm going to be headed to uh Cincinnati from Columbus because my daughter has a soccer tournament there.
So, I was going to mention maybe, but you're you're in Knoxville. Knox Vegas. Yep. Knox Vegas. Well, that's Nashville
Vegas, buddy. Nashville's I used to have a shirt. I used to have a Knox Vegas shirt that I got at a UT
Georgia game back in the day. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. N. Yeah. Yeah. For a minute. But, yeah.
But like Nashville, they're get they're getting ready to get a spear. I saw that the baby spear. They're like
really trying to beat Vegas. Like, well, now they need gambling and it'll be all there.
Batman. Yeah, basically. Yeah, they're on their way. More more cranes. More construction cranes.
Exactly. Stay compared to Tennessee. Yeah. All right, guys. Take it easy.
