Venting with the Pros with Jeremy Begley and Joe Medosch – Season 2, Special Episode

0:000 seconds[music] 0:033 secondsYeah, let's clarify how we're measuring air flow because you're like, "Oh, I didn't hear that you're [music] measuring air flow." So, we actually are measuring proper on now. I'm able to get diagnostics as soon as the system's 0:1212 secondsstable. The first question I've always before charge. So, air flow is actually determined how much refrigerant [music] is being pulled off or happening at the coil. 0:1818 secondsYeah. Let's clarify how we're measuring air flow because you're like, "Oh, I didn't hear that you're measuring air flow." So, we actually are measuring air. 0:2424 secondsHey everybody, welcome to the first episode of Venting with the Pros with Jeremy and Joe. Hey Joe, thanks for stopping by today. 0:3232 secondsH so glad to be here in Tennessee. Thanks for having me down, Jeremy. 0:3535 secondsAbsolutely. When you told me that you were coming into town and you were going to be so close teaching a class at NCI, which is right over in Morristown, I 0:4343 secondsdon't think that there was a way we couldn't hook up and do an in-person episode, especially since you're one of my closest friends in the industry. And 0:5050 secondsto date, we've done 23 episodes and you haven't been one of them. So, yeah, I gave you a hard time about that. 0:5555 secondsI thought I'd be one of the first people you invited, but I guess not. So, if I didn't come into town, we would probably be like number 47, but here we are. 1:011 minute, 1 secondYeah. Here we are. I'm sorry, man. I didn't mean to let you down. I know. I do that all the time. 1:051 minute, 5 secondsIt's all right. No, we let each other down. That's what good friends do, don't they? 1:081 minute, 8 secondsYeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, let's talk about some challenges with MeasureQuick. You want to get into that? 1:131 minute, 13 secondsLet's talk about what Measure Quick is first. 1:151 minute, 15 secondsLet's go negative instantly, Joe. Come on. Let's go there. Let's talk about what it doesn't. That's not really the case. So, let's talk about what it does do. Okay. If you're not familiar with MeasureQuick, because I talk to a lot of 1:241 minute, 24 secondspeople like, "Oh, what's MeasureQuick?" I'm like, "Oh, how long have you been in the industry?" Or, "How are you doing your certifications now or your verifications or commissioning?" Or, 1:311 minute, 31 seconds"What kind of tools are you using?" And of course, they're probably using a standard set of gauges with long hoses and keep taking refrigerants out of the 1:391 minute, 39 secondssystem. Let's clarify, I'm not an HVAC technician. I never was and still am not. Although I may play one on a podcast kind of scenario, but I 1:471 minute, 47 secondsclarified to people I'm not. I have a whole background in building science and IQ and healthy homes and a whole variety of stuff about the entire home, but 1:551 minute, 55 secondsbeing a HVAC technician was never part of my resume. So, that's not really where I come from. So, there's things you may ask and I'm like, I still don't know what that is, Jeremy. So, we'll 2:032 minutes, 3 secondsclarify. So, I ask people, so what do you do? And I've included in my learning a lot about HVAC from MeasureQuick and that is that it takes five trips for 2:122 minutes, 12 secondspeople to go to a house, maybe even three. They hook up their gauges with their long hoses and they suddenly like, "Oh, you're low on refrigerant." And I'm 2:192 minutes, 19 secondslike, "Yeah, you just kept taking it out and now it's low on refrigerant." Those are things we haven't accepted our industry is creating our own problems 2:262 minutes, 26 secondsbecause of the methodology that we're using. We're not actually using really good Bluetooth tools and all the other stuff this technologies actually pushed 2:342 minutes, 34 secondsus into and got a great opportunity to reduce losing refrigerants every time somebody goes to service a system. Oh, I think you need have a refrigerant leak. 2:412 minutes, 41 secondslike no the leak is you keep servicing your systems using all these hoses. 2:452 minutes, 45 secondsThose are the things that I keep kind of get frustrated with our systems like oh what's measure and I ask them well what is your process now and then they yeah I still use traditional gauges and hoses 2:542 minutes, 54 secondsand I just have to be polite about well there's some better options out there. 2:582 minutes, 58 secondsSo MeasureQuick is a agnostic app that works with a variety of Bluetooth tools to do full diagnostics not just from 3:053 minutes, 5 secondsrefrigerant pressures and temperatures but also airflow diagnostics and static pressure. So those are all the things that are common. Usually when somebody 3:133 minutes, 13 secondsasks about magic work I usually ask them the next question is oh how often do you check static pressure like every now and then sometimes. I'm like that's just 3:203 minutes, 20 secondscrazy. It's such a fundamental process of how well a system is working and they really do it. And I always ask do you check static every time? Like no no no 3:293 minutes, 29 secondswe do it when we do the install because of course there's nothing that a homeowner could ever do to impact your static pressure. 3:343 minutes, 34 secondsYeah. They couldn't never put a couch over a return or close all the registers in the upstairs. 3:393 minutes, 39 secondsRight. or the MV 75 filter that they get from Costco and they buy the bulk. 3:433 minutes, 43 secondsThere's so many things that are happening that when people come out to do a service or maintenance visit that they're not actually checking some basic fundamentals. Those things that I kind 3:513 minutes, 51 secondsof go into. So that's what Measure is doing. It's making it easy for an average technician, an advanced technician, brand new technician to go out and use some simple tools and 3:593 minutes, 59 secondsactually confirm that the system or commission the system with MeasureQuick. 4:034 minutes, 3 secondsWe've just revamped Measure Quick. If you've not used it, I encourage you to check it out again. It takes you through kind of step by step easily. If you've already got stuff done, doesn't ask you 4:114 minutes, 11 secondsto do it again. We really have brought ourselves into where the technician is for a variety of stuff that's out there. 4:164 minutes, 16 secondsWhat is the level of experience that you need to start using Measure quick? Can a junior tech fresh out of school pick it up without any guidance and go out and do service? 4:264 minutes, 26 secondsI believe they can. As long as they got their 608 now, they're understanding about where to do these. So, if they can go out and go do a service now, then there's no reason they can't use measure 4:344 minutes, 34 secondsquick. It's just kind of reducing some of their challenges because they can't figure stuff out. Instead of them calling in to ask their boss about what these numbers are and they ask them, 4:424 minutes, 42 secondswell, what's your super, your subcling, it's good, what's your airflow, it's good. We actually giving them a definitive number as to what that is. 4:484 minutes, 48 secondsAnd you click on any of those. You get a a range and a criteria as to actually where you're at and where you should be, whether you're in the green, red, or 4:554 minutes, 55 secondsblue, high or low, and then we tell you about it or why, give you diagnostics. 4:594 minutes, 59 secondsWe are the only app that actually tells you what your measurements are and puts them into perspective as to whether or not you're in the correct range and what's your target. So if you don't have 5:075 minutes, 7 secondsa target and a range, then as Jim would say, Jim Bergman, he would be like, "Stop taking measurements. They're just random numbers that you actually think are accurate, but you don't know what 5:155 minutes, 15 secondsthey mean. So if you don't know what a measurement means or is, stop doing it. 5:205 minutes, 20 secondsJust say the system's good." Use your hand. Go back to basic fundamentals that we used to always do. Beer can cold. Beer can worry about it. 5:265 minutes, 26 secondsThat's right. Yeah. Beer cans and cold is good unless you're using European beers. So beer can warm. 5:315 minutes, 31 secondsSo what we're doing is we're giving people really definitive numbers. If you're going to use all of these great tools, you should really know what your target is and what your range is. If you 5:395 minutes, 39 secondsdon't know what those are, then again those numbers don't mean anything. 5:425 minutes, 42 secondsThat's what Magic is doing and allowing basic fundamental texts and advanced texts or the top texts out there to get all this information at the same time. 5:505 minutes, 50 secondsYou can't run around the house, start moving stuff and thinking that you're going to get real criteria. I can't move my pressure probes from one side to the other and actually get real criteria. 5:595 minutes, 59 secondsIt's all nine probes we use to give you all your information all at once. 6:036 minutes, 3 secondsLet's break that down real quick. A couple ways. One, you've talked a lot about you can't believe that people are still using gauges, right? That's one of the things you stand on like sucks. 6:126 minutes, 12 secondsOkay. So, I understand there's times when you have to do it. 6:146 minutes, 14 secondsNo, no. And we're talking about gauges and hoses and just the traditional method of measuring refrigerant, right? 6:196 minutes, 19 secondsThat's Yeah. They go out to do a service call. 6:216 minutes, 21 secondsBoom. They go to the truck, they don't even go inside. They didn't even look at the blower motor. They didn't look at the filter. They have no concept of the air handlers actually has any issues. 6:296 minutes, 29 secondsAnd now they're assessing refrigerant charge. Those are the things I see regularly. I've been a renter for a while and I'm like, "Oh, okay." Oh, I've had some fun rental experience. 6:376 minutes, 37 secondsWhy is it important that they measure air flow first? There's some people that may not realize there is an order of operations to the way we do things, and 6:466 minutes, 46 secondsit is important. And the point that you were just making, I think gets glossed over a little bit because one of the points I think you were trying to make 6:546 minutes, 54 secondsis people aren't measuring air flow. But why is that important? Why would they even need to be doing that in the first place? 6:596 minutes, 59 secondsYeah. Air flow before charge. Air flow is actually determined how much refrigerant is being pulled off or happening at the coil. You're not actually having good air flow. Now your 7:067 minutes, 6 secondscoil is not actually working with refrigerant already. Right now I'm actually have other issues that are happening right now. If you have low air flow, usually it's low air flow, but you could have high air flow, high static. 7:157 minutes, 15 secondsAll those things are impacting your refrigerant charge. Now, if I go out and check my charge, so maybe, like, oh, it's low on charge. I add refrigerant. 7:217 minutes, 21 secondsThen they finally go in and realize that, oh my god, this blower is so dirty or that filter is completely clogged. 7:267 minutes, 26 secondsAnd they fix that and they find out that, oh, now I'm overcharged. They just aren't really having a proper assessment in terms of air flow before charge and 7:337 minutes, 33 secondsthen determining all that. So, if you're doing using measure click, we we really get you to focus on doing the inside first and then going out and confirming 7:407 minutes, 40 secondswhat that is. So, but when all nine probes are connected, we know immediately what's going to happen. I do know that I can't tell you that your filter's clogged. I can tell you have high static. 7:487 minutes, 48 secondsWell, go ahead and list off the readings of where all the probe placement so people get the full picture here of what we're talking about. 7:537 minutes, 53 secondsYeah. And these aren't the same places where you probably are measuring already. So, we'll just go outside. 7:577 minutes, 57 secondsOkay. You're measuring your pressure. I actually have high side, low side, suction line, liquid line pressures. I have suction line, liquid line temperatures. Okay. Typical system. We 8:058 minutes, 5 secondsalso use an outdoor probe. We actually have an outdoor temperature that's right there at the unit. So, we know exactly what temperature is going into the unit. So, those are your five outdoor probes. 8:138 minutes, 13 secondsAll right. inside we will do static because that's pretty straightforward. 8:178 minutes, 17 secondsIf it's a air handler versus a furnace then I got return and supply static. The other ones which we're actually doing is a system approach and not the equipment 8:258 minutes, 25 secondsapproach. We're taking your return and supply temperatures not at the equipment because the equipment may be working correctly but your system has got challenges. You may have duck leakage. 8:338 minutes, 33 secondsYou may not getting really good temperature splits in the system but you do have them at the unit. So we want you to be at the nearest supply and return 8:418 minutes, 41 secondsfor that system or the dominant return the language we use because returns are not a consistent in so many houses. My house doesn't have a dominant return. 8:498 minutes, 49 secondsIt's all individual returns. But your supply must be in the register itself. I need to get temperatures from where it actually is coming out of the register 8:578 minutes, 57 secondsnot in front of the register. I want to put it inside the register at the nearest supply register from the system. 9:029 minutes, 2 secondsThe return again you have some options there. it is either the nearest return that's your dominant but if you ended up having to go back to the system to get 9:109 minutes, 10 secondsthe return because that's probably maybe your best measurement it's not the end of the world but you're trying to make some real good assessments about this house these measurements and what do 9:179 minutes, 17 secondsthey mean for this client and this system as part of that process now all nine probes are on now I'm able to get diagnostics as soon as the system's stable the first question I've always 9:269 minutes, 26 secondsgotten everybody oh how much longer does that take and I'm like well what are you measuring now you know what are you connecting outside and inside you're probably doing these measurements or should be doing these measurements 9:349 minutes, 34 secondsthere's no real time difference. The only thing you're always waiting for is the system stable and we're going to tell you if the system's stable based on our algorithm. But once the system's stable, you get a score instantly. 9:439 minutes, 43 secondsYou're now off and running with what do I need to fix? Everything is good and actually generate a vitals report and talk to your client. The amount of time it takes to do a measure quick process 9:519 minutes, 51 secondsand report is less than what you would do if you had to write down all this information. 9:559 minutes, 55 secondsOne point I really wanted to make is a lot of guys that are going out are not measuring air flow, right? It's just not something they're doing. they have blinders on and they're only doing the 10:0310 minutes, 3 secondsrefrigerant testing and they're making determinations based on only refrigerant testing. So instantly using coaches you 10:1010 minutes, 10 secondsinto taking a more complete measurement and diagnostic picture of what's going on there and it shows you that dynamically at all at the same time. 10:1910 minutes, 19 secondsCorrect. Like here's a snapshot that you can see the system operating everything you're measuring. You can see all that stuff at the same exact time and it 10:2710 minutes, 27 secondsgives you hints and clues about why it's operating the way it is and what may be wrong in this picture or that picture or 10:3510 minutes, 35 secondsthis part of the system or that part of the system. 10:3710 minutes, 37 secondsYeah, let's clarify how we're measuring air flow because you're like, "Oh, I didn't hear that you're measuring air flow." So, we actually are measuring air flow. Our two psychrometers which are giving you your temperature difference 10:4510 minutes, 45 secondsand a variety of stuff also give you a very accurate air flow measurement. I mean, people kind of always like, "Oh, that's interesting." Because they don't use that as a method. It's not a 10:5310 minutes, 53 secondsstandardization method. It's a method that's out there and is well documented, but Jim uses it to a high level of science and there's some other stuff that we're using, but it's all based 11:0111 minutes, 1 secondupon theories, but it's not an approved method. The true flow grid sitting over here, that's a method that's actually approved, right? There's a flow hood is 11:0911 minutes, 9 secondsan approved method. Our two psychrometers is not an approved method that you could use from an ANIE standard or use in other standards as a process. 11:1611 minutes, 16 secondsOh, you could use those two psychrometers. It's not there, but it is for us. So we can actually give you our measurements from two cychrometers for 11:2311 minutes, 23 secondsair flow. Let's just kind of compare these two processes. Okay, the true flow grid is an amazing measurement that's actually measuring where the filter 11:3011 minutes, 30 secondsgrill is. All right, we're measuring actually across the coil. So they're very similar locations, but we're giving you two slightly different locations of 11:3811 minutes, 38 secondsgetting air flow. Right? If you really want to confirm that you're getting the most accurate information, all right, and I was just with Chris Hughes just a couple days ago from TEC and he 11:4711 minutes, 47 secondspinpointed this precisely the same example. He goes, he lives in Louisiana or used to live in Louisiana. He goes, "Yeah, they put this technology in to 11:5411 minutes, 54 secondsfigure out when there's a gunshot, they can triangulate it so they can know exactly what street corner that gunshot came from." We're all like, "Oh, good thing you now live in Minnesota, Chris." 12:0312 minutes, 3 secondsBut the process that could be dead on with the TrueFlow grid in MeasureQuick, you actually add it as a device and then 12:1012 minutes, 10 secondsyou go use the TrueFlow grid goes out to their process. You do all of the static pressure measurements and then you use the True Flow grid to get your measurements. We also are taking our 12:1812 minutes, 18 secondsairflow measurements in the background with our two cychrometers. When you use us together through MeasureQuick, you get a checks and balance. So, we're 12:2612 minutes, 26 secondsactually measuring it, they're measuring it, and we alert you for some reason it's off by more than 10%. Because we know we're pretty dead-on accurate, the two of us. So, if you're off by that, 12:3412 minutes, 34 secondsthen we're like, "Hey, something's not right. Either your probes are not in the right location or somehow you got filter by you got bypass on the system or there's something wrong. Go check your 12:4312 minutes, 43 secondssetup." So, it's a great way to confirm because if you just do one or the other, there's sometimes little doubt like, is that actually accurate? Using the True 12:5012 minutes, 50 secondsFlow grid through measure quick, all right, is a dead-on process. and know that both of these measurements that you're getting from True Flow is accurate because there's a backup 12:5812 minutes, 58 secondsthrough Measure quick. So, if you're really looking for a way to confirm that yes, I actually have the best airflow measurement possible, True Flow Quick is 13:0513 minutes, 5 secondsan add-on device and then it takes that measurement into consideration in its algorithm as well. 13:1113 minutes, 11 secondsIt does. So, if you're in Measurequick and you go to your toolbox and you add the TrueFlow grid, then you don't get any air flow in MeasureQuick until you do the TrueFlow grid. You don't get any 13:1913 minutes, 19 secondsstatic pressures in Measurequick until you use the True Flow grid. So people like why am I not getting air flow? Why am I not getting static pressures? It's because we're waiting for you to click 13:2713 minutes, 27 secondson the button goes out and does all that process from True Flow Grid brings it all back and now I actually have the air flow from them and all their statics. 13:3513 minutes, 35 secondsThere is no better relationship I think in the industry of getting actually a full process refrigerant air flow check airflow measurements and the static pressures all in one process. 13:4613 minutes, 46 secondsI agree. I wouldn't do it a different way. But are there situations where you can't use true flow grid? Have you heard of anything like that where people are like, "Man, there was no way for me to 13:5413 minutes, 54 secondsimplement it." I'm sure there's always something. 13:5613 minutes, 56 secondsThere's some kind of weird system or process where you have your logistics or challenges. They do have workarounds with multiple return grills. So, you could do two. There's always an issue 14:0514 minutes, 5 secondsthat somebody created some systems is a I can't do the true flow grill. 14:0814 minutes, 8 secondsThey don't have a filter grill. I've seen it. 14:0914 minutes, 9 secondsSo, the process where there's no place to put a filter, no filter at all. Okay. 14:1314 minutes, 13 secondsNo, I mean that exists. There is those problems. 14:1514 minutes, 15 secondsThere's one of those systems. There's entire community. There are always exceptions to that kind of stuff, but that's why you're still using the two psychrometers as part of your measure quick. I'm getting air flow, I'm getting 14:2314 minutes, 23 secondsstatic, and I'm getting all my refrigerant charges and temperatures. 14:2614 minutes, 26 secondsSo, super heat, subcooling, dehumidification, all that's built into measure quick. So, let's clarify though, the Measure Quick has got a lot of amazing stuff that's free. You can get a 14:3514 minutes, 35 secondssubscription. $49 a month gets you a lot, gets you to keep those reports, get you keep those pictures, it gets you a whole step through process. But if not, 14:4314 minutes, 43 secondsyou just download MeasureQuick. There's even a button on the front of Measure says start now. Connect your tools. Go get your diagnostics and go. You don't need any money to get diagnostic. You 14:5214 minutes, 52 secondsdon't need to log in or give us an email if you're like, I'm not giving you any of that stuff. You can actually do it right there on the home screen when you first download the app. If you do get a 15:0015 minutesgive us an email or get an account that's different from a subscription, you still get to add all your tools. 15:0515 minutes, 5 secondsThere's a lot of quick tests in there that are phenomenal. All of the NCI quick test. 15:0815 minutes, 8 secondsDude, I love the quick tests that are added in now. I I begged for that feature for a while. I love it. Yeah, the whole NCI static pressure screening is stunning. You're like, "Oh my gosh, I 15:1615 minutes, 16 secondscan actually figure out not just what my total external static is, but I can now figure out is it actually the return duct itself? Is it actually the filter 15:2315 minutes, 23 secondsby itself? Or is it a coil an issue for a furnace? Or is it the supply which is rare in general, but you can easily determine my return duct alone is a 15:3215 minutes, 32 secondsproblem?" And you get a free report out of that. It's all free, free. 15:3515 minutes, 35 secondsSpeaking of reports, there's a lot of different reports depending on what you want to do. Some of them you do have to pay for, but it is a very robust compliance tool in a lot of different 15:4315 minutes, 43 secondsways as well. I mean, you have AAQI in there. You have all the NCI stuff in there and True Flow Grid propers in 15:5015 minutes, 50 secondsthere if you want to use it. So, a lot of different little hidden features that it has that is just not MeasureQuick itself. I think yeah, we've realized that there's a lot 15:5815 minutes, 58 secondsof industry groups out there and we wanted to work with them. So, we've been working with AKA for quite a while. 16:0316 minutes, 3 secondsThere's a process where you can actually go out and do a Qi5 as part of our our Measure quick process. It's an add-on to your subscription. So, you have a subscription for us and you add that on 16:1216 minutes, 12 secondsand all of your people in your company, whether you got five or 50, it's one price for everybody to do that. We have companies that have been doing that for all of their installs and their 16:2016 minutes, 20 secondscallbacks are a fraction, like less than one. And we've also got some stats we're going to be releasing soon that show the people that use not just Medic but even 16:2816 minutes, 28 secondsthe QI process meaning they're actually doing duck testing and a variety of other stuff as part of the process confirming balance that kind of stuff that they're they're at the highest 16:3616 minutes, 36 secondslevel of having accuracy comfort less call backs. We're now going to be able to publish some of the stuff soon to show people that are using measure and finish measure quick or do it or use all nine probes or they're missing a probe. 16:4716 minutes, 47 secondsWe have all kinds of amazing documentation like if you do it you're just doing it right. It isn't that we're some super secret. We're just saying that's the same reason we created the get verified program. 16:5616 minutes, 56 secondsThere has to be a process in place, right, for you to be able to successfully design a system, install it, and make 17:0417 minutes, 4 secondssure that the performance and the operation of the system match the intent of the design. Without having those things in place, you could do a design 17:1317 minutes, 13 secondsall day long. It could be awesome. It could match the house. It could be a verified design. But the minute it gets implemented and it's not set up correctly, it's not your design anymore. 17:2117 minutes, 21 secondsSo you got to get it verified. I mean that's our measure, measure, measure. Yeah. Measure and verify. 17:2617 minutes, 26 secondsYeah. One of my greatest challenges that I've had as a personal frustration is that I was at RetroTek for quite a while and they came out with a better gauge 17:3417 minutes, 34 secondsthat actually talked to your device. It talk to your Apple or Android. So I can actually see my results on my phone and the gauge. And I'm like, "Oh, oh my 17:4117 minutes, 41 secondsgosh, we can actually now capture this information." Yep. 2013. 17:4517 minutes, 45 secondsYeah, I remember 2013. So I was there. Yeah. I created [laughter] it's called the RCloud. We created an app and allowed you to do [clears throat] and at the same time that blower door testing went from 17:5317 minutes, 53 secondssingle point to multi-point which is actually kind of complicated for a lot of people like oh we can do that for you. So all that was built into the app. 17:5917 minutes, 59 secondsThe app is now used by hundreds if not thousands of people. It's built into their monometers now. 18:0418 minutes, 4 secondsBack then it was not but now you can use it right inside the monometer. Yeah. 18:0718 minutes, 7 secondsSo the point is that we've been able to do direct capture for a long time. All right. And yet the industry has yet to accept that. Code doesn't accept that. 18:1518 minutes, 15 secondsThird party compliance aka doesn't really accept that. All these things that it should be doing are not doing that. Energy Star, all this stuff, it did yet to accept direct capture. You 18:2418 minutes, 24 secondscan still write down whatever the hell you want. And that's a sad state. 18:2818 minutes, 28 secondsSee, we look at it the other way. We only accept direct capture like in our for our designs and our get verified in the verified process. Like we want 18:3518 minutes, 35 secondseverything direct capture to the point that we also created a verified app that the contractors that work with us walk around and take very specific data 18:4418 minutes, 44 secondspoints. you know like this is the age of the era of data driven HVAC all data matters and they go and collect very specific data points that prove out the 18:5218 minutes, 52 secondsinstallation and performance of the system one of those is the measure quick reports and benchmarking reports that is a required part of that entire process 19:0019 minutesfor us yeah so I'll get rid of the you know people well measure quick so if you want to get a score with measure quickquick you actually get a scored system you 19:0819 minutes, 8 secondshave to have all nine probes they have to be on you have to be active but you can actually get a lot of stuff without having those nine you can manually enter some of that stuff and get your 19:1619 minutes, 16 secondsdiagnostics, but if you want the score, all nine probes have to be on for direct capture. We do have the AKA verified system. It does allow you to manually 19:2319 minutes, 23 secondsenter stuff for like a duct test or your flow hood. Those are things that are really kind of challenging to get direct capture. You can do it for the blower door duct testing. You can take a 19:3119 minutes, 31 secondspicture of your report, but believe me, I push for direct capture and eventually we'll kind of get there. But there's no reason that we shouldn't be doing direct 19:3819 minutes, 38 secondscapture. If you're listening to this and you have people out in the field that are not directly capturing what your 19:4519 minutes, 45 secondsresults are, then you really are just wasting your money because they're just out there and they can make up whatever they wanted. They're writing down whatever they want. 19:5419 minutes, 54 secondsAnd sometimes it's not even nefarious as makeup. Sometimes people just write down the wrong thing. They can't read their own handwriting. Like there's a million different They could be writing down the correct 20:0120 minutes, 1 secondthing. Let's not they're making stuff up. But you know what? I need these certain numbers to pass. It's shocking how many times we see blower door results that are actually wow 2.9 2.9 20:1020 minutes, 10 seconds2.9 2.9 2 4.9 4 however you need it it's just under that number. So always sliding in the home plate. 20:1820 minutes, 18 secondsThat's right. Before we go into our logistics that you want to talk about with measure and many of them are beyond my scope. I'll do my best. 20:2420 minutes, 24 secondsJust going to beat you up and throw you out there. I mean that's all. 20:2720 minutes, 27 secondsYeah. Right. Well [laughter] I got a bat so there are some challenges that we have but there are things that we're also doing that most people aren't even 20:3420 minutes, 34 secondsaware of. So we now have in our arsenal in measurequick as part of our premier features is you can actually do a heat pump and heat heat pump in heating mode 20:4320 minutes, 43 secondswhich people don't understand that most heat pumps are supposed to be commissioned by the manufacturer in cooling mode only and usually it's above 20:5020 minutes, 50 seconds70 to 75 degrees. So that's a major limitation. Yep. Right. So agreed. 20:5420 minutes, 54 secondsNow you could use a charging jacket that we have. All right. You could lower that down to 35 degrees. All right. To activate that. So, that's one way to get 21:0121 minutes, 1 seconda commission report. Still stay in cooling mode and get into that lower range all the way down to 35, which is significant. Yeah. Right. That gets you a lot of places. 21:0921 minutes, 9 secondsThat's right. But, you know, people wonder what Jim kind of does. Jim does nothing except read research, valid research, reviewed research. We realize 21:1821 minutes, 18 secondsthat for a heat pump, we don't need pressures. It's great to grab these kind of pressures, but some of them are a little difficult to get to because you're actually now inside the unit to 21:2621 minutes, 26 secondsget these pressures. So, we actually are able to do a give you a score, verify your heat pump in heat mode. Clearly, it's running in heat mode where the 21:3421 minutes, 34 secondstemperature appropriate actually just do your line set temperatures, liquid line, suction line, outdoor temperature, and 21:4121 minutes, 41 secondsstill do your suction line pressures and your air flow and get a score, right? 21:4621 minutes, 46 secondsWhich is phenomenal that what you can actually get a scored system, heat pump and heat mode without actually touching pressures. when you're doing it, the setup is the same way as far as you're 21:5521 minutes, 55 secondscranking it up as far as you can and getting it in the high heating and then where you're going to take your measurement at. 22:0122 minutes, 1 secondY and that's always a logistics for a lot of systems. The best you could do put as highest capacity then only helps get your measurements correctly. That's just our greatest anomaly that we have. 22:1022 minutes, 10 secondsI know Chris uses got a nice little spreadsheet that we're going to actually add to as one of our quick access like oh I want to see what these are. is like, "Okay, pick your brand, pick your 22:1822 minutes, 18 secondsmodel, and here's what we know about going to the thermostat or going to the unit and pressing these three buttons or Bosch has got one button on the outside. 22:2522 minutes, 25 secondsPress it." Some of them only go to like 80%. I have a new Dykan system. You could put it high capacity. I think it's like 20 minutes, maybe it's 40 minutes, whatever it is, but it only goes to 80%. 22:3422 minutes, 34 secondsSo, I can only do certain things at percent capacity. 22:3722 minutes, 37 secondsCapacity, right? Yeah. So, there are some, they all have their own limitations. We actually have tried to figure out Mitsubishi and how that works. They actually have this one that'll test your system and it'll ramp 22:4522 minutes, 45 secondsup in all the different stages. 10 minutes each, 10 minutes each, gets always to the after 45 minutes, it got up to its highest one, stays there for maybe 20 minutes, do your test quick, 22:5422 minutes, 54 secondsand then it goes back to reset. If anybody knows how to do those things and hopefully the industry could share, that's our greatest challenge is actually how to put these systems in a 23:0223 minutes, 2 secondshigher capacity. And if you're talking about new people to the industry, this is their greatest challenge is that where do they find this information? 23:0823 minutes, 8 secondsYeah. And then you talk about people that are new to MeasureQuick too. This is one of the biggest questions people have is there's a lot of these inverter type systems out there now that are 23:1623 minutes, 16 secondsducted with air handlers. And there are some things Measurequick can do and then there are some things that you just have to do use the manufacturer's proprietary 23:2523 minutes, 25 secondscommissioning process to do. You want to talk about we've already hammered down that people that are using their old gauges and hoses. Hopefully the industry will fade 23:3323 minutes, 33 secondsthat away. But now your options like oh okay so I work with Mr. Bishi or Carrier or even Dykan's got their own. 23:3823 minutes, 38 secondsEverybody's got their own like, "Hey, get our box, our little black box, our service tool." Yeah. 23:4223 minutes, 42 secondsService tools, right? And get trained and that's a great option. It's stunning what you can see with those tools. But if you don't have that or have training or you're going to buy all seven of 23:4923 minutes, 49 secondsthose or three of those or four of those, then that's a limitation to buy one for all of your techs. So that's a major Yeah. And they're 4 to 500 a piece. 23:5723 minutes, 57 secondsYou're not getting them much cheaper than that no matter who you are. 23:5923 minutes, 59 secondsBut it's great those are out there. And there are some things you can actually get out of the stat. I can see some of this information. I can see pressures or static pressures and that kind of stuff. 24:0624 minutes, 6 secondsAnd then they have some codes on the air handlers too that that will tell you a lot of that stuff. Not all of it though that's in the service tools. 24:1224 minutes, 12 secondsYeah. So there's a lot of stuff that if you want to learn more the manufacturers are trying to give you that and it's also proprietary and training whatever. 24:1924 minutes, 19 secondsIf you're able to have a pressure port that's liquid line suction line then that is the criteria for us to be able to make some measurement. All right. 24:2824 minutes, 28 secondsThen we can actually give you some information about that system. Some of them we're still trying to figure out what's going on with the systems and the manufacturers just don't have it to 24:3624 minutes, 36 secondsthem. They think it's proprietary and they don't want to release it. So for a lot of them we can't. I just got a new can fit for my house and it's got two ports and I was able to do a full 24:4424 minutes, 44 secondsmeasure quick diagnostics on it and confirm that it was operating the way the technicians who I was over the shoulder the whole time installed it. So 24:5124 minutes, 51 secondsI knew that when they left I got 100 and it was exactly what I had paid for. So you can do that with many of these types of inverter type variable systems. 25:0025 minutesSo some you can, some you can't. 25:0225 minutes, 2 secondsThat's right. So if you if I don't have two ports to connect the things to. So let's move down the other side, which I know you're dying to get to. So let's 25:0825 minutes, 8 secondstalk about and the word heat pump is a generic term that's used inappropriately all the time because it's like saying that's a car. Okay. Well, there's 25:1625 minutes, 16 secondsprobably cars out there that have two wheels and three wheels and whatever. I really think we should try and get some better definitions. For us, we try and talk that we're actually we work with a 25:2425 minutes, 24 secondsducted split system, right? If that thing outside is technically a mini split because that's how they're refers to it or whether it's an inverter, those 25:3225 minutes, 32 secondsare some technical conditions, but in general, if it's a fully ducted system as a split system, in general, we work well with those. It could be a package 25:3925 minutes, 39 secondsunit, we get that, but that's our specialty. Right now, we're going to go to this. We'll just call it single head. 25:4525 minutes, 45 secondsSo, we're able to define that a single head miniplit type system. Right? So now we moved out of that into something else. We are working on a way to do 25:5325 minutes, 53 secondsthat. Jim has got a proprietary system which we're actually doing beta. If you're listening to this and you want to help us test it, reach out to me or to Jim say, "Hey, I saw Jeremy's vodkas. J, 26:0226 minutes, 2 secondsyou got to clarify. Jeremy is amazing." Right? We want to actually do more testing for you to help to figure out this process. But we can actually 26:1026 minutes, 10 secondsdetermine how that system is operating as a mini split. That's one of our processes between the heat pump and heat mode and doing mini splits. Now, we're 26:1826 minutes, 18 secondstrying to add more options for the industry that desperately needs this kind of stuff. 26:2226 minutes, 22 secondsOkay. So, yeah. So, that's a single head mini split that you would traverse with a vein animometer. 26:2926 minutes, 29 secondsSo, here I'll get right. So, so you're going to go into our specialty little workflow. It's actually a proprietary thing that we extrapolated from a system 26:3726 minutes, 37 secondsthat California was using on how to verify their systems. And so, we're actually going to do temperature split right there on the unit, right? And there's some tricky stuff about trying 26:4426 minutes, 44 secondsto keep the fins open and keep the probes where you need them. The system's got to run for almost 20 minutes. Okay? 26:5126 minutes, 51 secondsEven though 10 minutes you're good. So, we're only going to give you it's good, needs service, or it needs extreme service kind of a condition. So, it's 26:5826 minutes, 58 secondseither hey, it's good and that's what you're really after. We're not going to give you a score out of this, but it's just telling you that it's it's a good system. We actually have a company now that is testing it and they're cleaning 27:0627 minutes, 6 secondsmini splits. I think it's called probably their company. We clean mini splits. And in order for them to do all that effort to keep that whole area contained and keep it clean and know 27:1427 minutes, 14 secondsthat it was clean, they test it before and then they clean it and test it afterwards to confirm that yes, it should be operating afterwards to this level. So the ones that I've tested 27:2327 minutes, 23 secondsafter like 10 minutes I'm like it needs service and then I wait another five minutes. So it's now good. So you need to make sure that it is fully stabilized in order to do that. So that's one of 27:3127 minutes, 31 secondsthe criteria. It need a good stable system that's been operating for several minutes in order to make that happen. So to put a pin in how you can use measure 27:4027 minutes, 40 secondsquick if it's a ducted split system and you have two ports and a way to drive it into high capacity then basically you can use measure quick with simple simple yeah that's the highest level possible. 27:5027 minutes, 50 secondsYeah then you can do everything that you can do. If not if there's one two three one of those things missing. There's other diagnostic opportunities to use 27:5927 minutes, 59 secondsmeasure quick. You just can't get the full nine probe benchmark out of it. And if there's ports missing or you can't drive it to the highest capacity or something like that, right? 28:0828 minutes, 8 secondsYeah. Let's just stay there for just a second because I'm very involved with the ResNet ANC IC whatever 310 standard. Oh, 310. Yeah. 28:1528 minutes, 15 secondsJim helped write the step five which was part five of noninvasive. 28:1928 minutes, 19 secondsNon-invasive. Yeah. Like but the reality is that most everybody just weighs it in. Yep. 28:2528 minutes, 25 secondsIt's just so common without verifying what you really got. Especially even if the temperatures are good outside, right? The temperatures are 80 degrees. 28:3028 minutes, 30 secondsI'm like you just weigh it in. You're not going to verify it. So when they did my install, I'm like, "No, we're going to verify it." So let's just make sure that's correct. Most of the instructions in the manual, you read the effing 28:3928 minutes, 39 secondsmanual. It says, "Weigh it in. Here's your thing. You got 15 feet. You got this amount. Do that." And some of them actually now say, "Take stuff out." And 28:4628 minutes, 46 secondsincredibly complicated, but the goal is it also says on the next paragraph, verify system operation when the conditions are correct, right? Meaning that it's a good temperature outside. 28:5628 minutes, 56 secondsYou should be coming back and verifying that system. And yet I don't know of hardly anybody that does. So that's always the challenge. Go. Yeah. weigh it in, it's all good. So, why don't you just kind of verify it and confirm it? 29:0629 minutes, 6 secondsThat's one of our pet peeves between hoses and not verifying your system if you wait it in are some of my frustrations. 29:1229 minutes, 12 secondsSo, if you wait it in, then you're just doing your electric and you're doing your airflow testing and if you're 29:1829 minutes, 18 secondsfollowing 310, you're doing duck leakage testing. And who's doing air flow testing? If you're just weighing it in, I usually don't see people doing air flow test. 29:2629 minutes, 26 secondsNo, no, no. I'm not saying people that are just Let me qualify what I'm saying. 29:2929 minutes, 29 secondsI'm saying now I'm not saying guys that are just weighing it in and walking away are doing anything else. They're not. 29:3429 minutes, 34 secondsYou're lucky they're weighing something else. 29:3629 minutes, 36 secondsThis is what I'm saying. I'm saying if you are weighing the refrigerant in and you do want to do the correct process 29:4329 minutes, 43 secondsand static. Yeah. These are the other things that you can do that that don't involve refrigerant and part of the 310 process. I think we started having two different conversations. 29:5229 minutes, 52 secondsYeah, we were criticizing two different levels there. Okay. Right. Okay. The other one that was a shock to me when I had my system installed, which I've been around, again, not a technician, but the evacuation for my system and their grip. 30:0230 minutes, 2 secondsYeah, we go to 500. I'm like, you can just do anything and get to 500. There's no actual effort here. My two technicians that were there were distracted inside trying to do some 30:1130 minutes, 11 secondswiring thing on the unit. And I was outside. I luckily had my good friend Phil Swyen service tech in my area, out at the 30:1930 minutes, 19 secondshouse. So, he came out, oh, see how it's going. And then it was running for I swear at least a half an hour and it was 377. They got the down to micron 377. 30:2830 minutes, 28 secondsI'm like okay. And I knew if they came out they like it's good. I'm like no it's not good. I told them we're going to get below 100 and they're I don't know. Like it's not that tough guys. 30:3730 minutes, 37 secondsPhil and I did some checking on all the different connectivities and of course they were using small hoses and a variety of stuff. And then we started seeing there were leaks. And I then 30:4630 minutes, 46 secondscounted how many connections there were between their pump, the evacuation pump, and all the hoses and all the connections and the connections in the 30:5430 minutes, 54 secondshoses. Even the blue hoses, which we know, I love the blue, but it's actually got its own little connections. There were 17 places that could have leaks. 31:0131 minutes, 1 secondAnd I'm like, "Oh my god, we're not actually actually checking the leaks, but I'm like, there's a problem here." So, we then stopped. We actually changed the larger hoses. We got rid of their 31:0931 minutes, 9 secondsantiquated process. So like, okay, we're going to use the bluevac system. And then we still couldn't get below. Now we were struggling to get below 400. And we 31:1631 minutes, 16 secondsrealized that there were four ports on their vacuum. And one of the ports wasn't tight. And we're like, "Oh my god." After we found all the leaks, 31:2431 minutes, 24 secondswhich to them they would have been like, "Hey, 377, not bad, guy. We're done." Like, "Oh no, we can get below minutes. 31:3031 minutes, 30 secondsWe're down to 40." Oh, wow. 31:3231 minutes, 32 secondsRight. And that was no effort there at all. They were kind of like, "Oh, okay." So we got to 40. I held it for 20 minutes. I let the bluevac do all of its 31:4031 minutes, 40 secondsjob. Confirmed everything was good, but they would have never gotten it down that low. So, that was my criteria. It's one thing about having somebody who's 31:4831 minutes, 48 secondssuper annoying on your job site to help you make sure that things got done a certain way. I'm stunned that people are like, "Oh, we try to get down to 200." I'm like, "No, you can get down to 200. 31:5631 minutes, 56 secondsYou have leaks if you do if you're not getting that far down." Do you feel like a system can be properly commissioned without verifying the design or do you feel like that's an 32:0432 minutes, 4 secondsunnecessary step in ResNet? Oh, you should have some type of criteria design or at least a load. I found what my load is and you really kind of missed the whole boat. Yeah. 32:1332 minutes, 13 secondsSomething to base something. 32:1532 minutes, 15 secondsI I did a thing that I realized. You mean duck design or you talking? 32:1832 minutes, 18 secondsI'm talking about a So, yeah, load calculation. Yeah. I mean, sure. A whole entire design. Why not? 32:2332 minutes, 23 secondsYeah. So, for a new house, I really think you should have a But for an existing Yeah, the load calculation at least. Yeah, load calculation. No problem. 32:2832 minutes, 28 secondsThat's right. Yeah. And now you can but you can now do that with amply and conduit tech to a simple degree. Like at least have something to go off of. Okay. 32:3432 minutes, 34 secondsI should be able to have some idea that this is it in a low calculation if you didn't do a blower door test based on how I see houses and how 32:4232 minutes, 42 secondsconsistent they are. The only way that it would have come down is if I had somebody come out and tighten the house. 32:4832 minutes, 48 secondsOtherwise, I'm just assuming that it's pretty leaky house. 32:5132 minutes, 51 secondsOh, I don't think that there's some of them that are tight, very tight houses. 32:5532 minutes, 55 secondsI've seen them. I've seen all kinds of new con I I Oh, no. New construction. We're talking I'm No, I'm talking Okay, so new it's 33:0233 minutes, 2 secondsexisting home 5 to 10 years old. They're tight. Existing. I go walk in a house and get under two air changes. 33:0933 minutes, 9 secondsYeah. But then you would know that from your area. Follow me. 33:1133 minutes, 11 secondsNo, I don't think you would. I can be because I can go in another one right next to it and that's your area. No, you're I'm talking like Cincinnati or whatever. But I could 33:2033 minutes, 20 secondsI can't drop you anywhere in the country and assume that I'm below two air changes. You're in Tennessee. You're assuming a lot. 33:2633 minutes, 26 secondsI am. I would rather what I have little confidence that builders have achieved. And the other say, what are you doing? 33:3133 minutes, 31 secondsYou're just putting loose and then that's it. in your blow calculation. 33:3433 minutes, 34 secondsWhat are you using for your blower door metric or are you putting I'm just clarify I'm not we're talking about things that can be done. Okay. So no I'm talking about if so let's let me 33:4333 minutes, 43 secondsclarify this in a load calculation you have to put in an infiltration metric. 33:4933 minutes, 49 secondsOkay like if I was doing it I have a blower door. 33:5133 minutes, 51 secondsI would just blow a door. If you don't have a blower door then what are you going to do? 33:5433 minutes, 54 secondsIf you don't have a blower door then you're going to go get somebody that has a blower door and have them do the blower door to us. Or you're going to go buy a blower door and you're going to do a blower door when you come. Yeah. Okay. So here we go. 34:0234 minutes, 2 secondsSo here we are. Joe, the guy who says one of the biggest drawbacks of QI is that you have to do duck testing because nobody's going to do duct testing, 34:1034 minutes, 10 secondsright? Okay. So like one of the biggest drawbacks of load calculations is it's not a load calculation if you don't do a blower door test. It's not required. It's not required. 34:1834 minutes, 18 secondsIt doesn't matter. It's not accurate. Required a QI requires a a duck test. Okay. 34:2334 minutes, 23 secondsYour load does not require blow. Yes, it does. It does not. Yes, it does. 34:2734 minutes, 27 secondsWhere does it say requires? It actually says an infiltration. 34:3034 minutes, 30 secondsRight. No, I'm saying I know for a fact that it does not say it's required. 34:3334 minutes, 33 secondsThose words are not written. But I'm telling you, I just said required. You said yes, it is. 34:3634 minutes, 36 secondsYes, it's required. It's not a low calculation if you're not doing a blow door test in today's day and age. I can take the I mean you twice we said required, not required. 34:4434 minutes, 44 secondsIt's so weird because me and you are the ones who did the case study on this. And now you're saying something different than what the case study showed us. 34:5134 minutes, 51 secondsSay we're talking about what most people are doing. They're not doing a blower door test, right? So they're not doing a low calculation. They're guessing. agree that there you could call them guessing 34:5934 minutes, 59 secondsbut in the standard to do manual J it doesn't say you have to do it should and it may it should it's not required 35:0735 minutes, 7 secondsthat's not my argument my argument is it's not an accurate load calculation without a blow door we're on the same page that because we've proven that how wildly 35:1535 minutes, 15 secondsdifferent the default metrics can be versus a given they are even loose is never loose enough for a lot of holes and it makes a difference in the 35:2435 minutes, 24 secondsload it changes the load drastically so it's not a good lo and the other way is a little safer if it's tight. Like point 35:3135 minutes, 31 secondsof diminishing returns for tight is way different than the point of diminishing returns for loose. Like it's a much different spectrum on the tight end than it is. 35:3935 minutes, 39 secondsSo the example was you did two homes we actually did breakdown of like blower door not blower door and it changed between almost a three to five ton and 35:4835 minutes, 48 secondsit also was uh furnace size and a half based which is tremendous because furnace size is you know how they run. So, like, yeah, it changes it, bro. 35:5635 minutes, 56 secondsLike, if you're not doing a blower door test, it can be drastically different from house to house. Like, there's no doubt about it. 36:0136 minutes, 1 secondSo, in my house, I actually had several blower door tests done. So, I had some checks and balances on what they were doing. 36:0536 minutes, 5 secondsAnd on the opposite end of that, in new construction, you should be designing to some kind of air change number and verifying that at the end of it. And if it gets different, you put that in the load calculation and see what you have. 36:1636 minutes, 16 secondsBut continue your redundancy. So, new construction should have a blowtor test. Yeah. 100%. Most of them do. 36:2136 minutes, 21 secondsOkay. in the country down here, but not in Tennessee, but like most other places they do. 36:2636 minutes, 26 secondsI'm still going with 40% have blader door tests. That's probably a good I'll buy that. I'll buy into that. 36:3136 minutes, 31 secondsMy philosophy because I've lived in I would say four or five different climate zones across the country. So, in general, the closer you are to a big 36:3836 minutes, 38 secondscity, blow door test, full gamma. Code compliance is very active. 40 minutes out of that city, ah, good. 36:4536 minutes, 45 secondsYeah, I agree with that, too. For the most part, there's some anomalies like Cincinnati is not that way. the enforcement 48 minutes out from Cincinnati is actually stricter than what they have in the city because 36:5436 minutes, 54 secondsyou're out in Butler County. But so there's some exceptions across the country. 36:5736 minutes, 57 secondsIn general, I'm saying I live an hour out. We do blow. I'm great. Good for you. I'm happy for it. I saying there's some exceptions. 37:0237 minutes, 2 secondsBut in general, it's probably true. Like around here, it's just super hit or miss. Like in Tennessee, we're in Tennessee. So when I say around here, I mean Tennessee. But like one little 37:1137 minutes, 11 secondscommunity, outlying community, a little city, incorporated city named Farragut, they require blow door testing. 37:1737 minutes, 17 secondsKnoxville City says they do, but they rarely enforce it. The guys tell me it's hit or miss all the time whether it gets enforced. Tennessee is on either 2018 or 37:2637 minutes, 26 seconds2024 energy code as a state depending on who you talk to. I think they just adopted 2024. So either way it goes, both of those required blower door test, 37:3537 minutes, 35 secondsbut most municipalities just take it out of there and choose not to not. Yeah, exactly. Like local exceptions and 37:4337 minutes, 43 secondsHamilton County, Cincinnati, Ohio is bad for that, too. They require blow a door, but they do a lot of exceptions where they like amend the code almost back to the old code and call it the new code. 37:5237 minutes, 52 secondsYou know, it's like the game they like to play. So, yeah, it's just interesting. But I think I said all that to say I think your 40% is pretty accurate. It's probably correct. 38:0038 minutesSo, the the conclusion we're both on the same page. If you're going to do a load calculation, you should have a blower door test done in order to make it accurate. 38:0838 minutes, 8 secondsIt's not required, guys, but it is required. Okay. 38:1038 minutes, 10 secondsOkay. It's not required, but it's not a load calculation. I think they do. You use the word required multiple ways. So it's recommended and I'm using required tongue and cheek, but 38:1838 minutes, 18 secondsyeah, it's highly recommended. It's not Nobody's going to hit you with a stick and make you do it, but I might talk bad about you if you don't. 38:2538 minutes, 25 secondsOkay. So, we've completed the circle of having your system have some type of load. Okay. So, one thing that I did indirectly, so I'm sure people clearly a 38:3438 minutes, 34 secondsnew system, new house, new design [snorts] should also have a manual D or some duct design and even a T because you already have an S already. a tea is 38:4238 minutes, 42 secondsprobably the most valuable part of that stuff. So, what I've concluded though, if you're doing an existing home, that the true flow can give you an idea that 38:5038 minutes, 50 secondsyou don't really need a mandle D. You're going to determine if it is or isn't doing well. I'm going to get a good static profile and I'm going to get air 38:5838 minutes, 58 secondsflow out of that. And now I'm going to determine that, oh, it's not good enough. I need to figure out a way to increase my issues. Usually, it's the return side, but in general, your manual 39:0639 minutes, 6 secondsD just comes from performance. So you actually can get really good existing performance out of that system. It's like you know what this would work. And 39:1339 minutes, 13 secondsfor those of you that aren't familiar with that the True Flow and now has a forecasting mode that is just stunning, man. And they're only growing 39:2139 minutes, 21 secondsexponentially out of that process. If you're doing furnaces, you can actually now import all your different types of furnaces in terms of their capacity and 39:2839 minutes, 28 secondstheir airflow and all that in there and their statics. So I can be like, "Oh, I'm using a RE furnace or I'm using this type of furnace." they can confirm that 39:3639 minutes, 36 secondsfurnace will work with your ducks or you may have modifications where it doesn't work. So that's going to be a major game changer. So I applaud them and their 39:4439 minutes, 44 secondsability to not just do forecasting but to do it on a great level of what's really going on at your ducks. They work or they don't work. So sales people in 39:5139 minutes, 51 secondsfact when I introduce the True Flow to people they're like oh my gosh it cost how much? And the first thing they think they get their technicians on it then 39:5839 minutes, 58 secondsI'm like no people that are successful with True Flow it's their salespeople that have this tool because it's such a simple tool to use. And then other people like, "Oh man, my salespeople, 40:0640 minutes, 6 secondsthey're they're struggling to even just get their four appointments a day." And let me tell you something right now. If you're doing four appointments a day, we're not talking to you. You're not the guy we're talking. 40:1540 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. Right. The two and done that. 40:1740 minutes, 17 secondsRight. The goal is let's find out what's going on. What blew me away was like, I had no idea that they also were designing the system. You got a salesperson who's maybe little 40:2540 minutes, 25 secondsexperience with this and they're like, "Oh yeah, I figured out you need this size system." Oh yeah, they do. My brother's does sales for one of the biggest carrier dealer in Melbourne, Florida. And yeah, 40:3440 minutes, 34 secondstheir sales guys are all designers. They all know how to use rights. They all know how to design duck work on a use a duckulator in the house. The acadeuck, 40:4140 minutes, 41 secondsnot some fake duckulator, the aaduckulator and use it to design systems and to use right. If you're about your stuff, you should be doing 40:4940 minutes, 49 secondsthat crap. Dude, listen, let me tell you something. I recently have started like traditionally in my business in HAC to home performance, I have been a B2B 40:5740 minutes, 57 secondsperson. Like I sat at so many tables when I had Cincinnati Energy Solutions when I first met you and National Heating and Air Days and stuff like that 41:0441 minutes, 4 secondsthat I just got sick of dealing with homeowners because that is a very handholding process through the sales process. Like it's a whole different 41:1241 minutes, 12 secondsballgame that you're dealing with. So I started only catering to contractors and builders and that was the business I built lately because of the platform 41:2041 minutes, 20 secondsthat we're trying to build and we want to hand qualified leads to contractors that want to work with us in our verified process. I've revamped some of 41:2841 minutes, 28 secondsthe website and started and I've done it because of AI as well, like the Advent AI. There's certain things like literally I just paid to have our 41:3541 minutes, 35 secondswebsite redone last year through Energy Circle and I'm redoing almost all of it h by hand right now because of AI. Like there's just certain things that have to 41:4441 minutes, 44 secondshappen on your site that my site was not set up to do. And what I did, I started changing some of the wording so that we can talk to homeowners a little more. 41:5241 minutes, 52 secondsWell, since we've did those things, I've had six homeowners in the past because we did that about 90 days ago. It takes about 90 days for the changes and the 42:0042 minutescrawlers and the AI to start finding you that way. But two interesting things happened. One, I've gotten homeowners. 42:0642 minutes, 6 secondsTwo, the homeowners I've gotten have said at least four of the six or maybe even all six, I can't remember, but at least four of them found us through some 42:1342 minutes, 13 secondsAI. And two of them said, "Somebody recommended you." And I said, "Who recommended us?" And the lady goes, "There's this app called Groank that I 42:2042 minutes, 20 secondswas asking questions to and they got me to you." So, a couple things people should be aware of. One, these homeowners are getting prompted by the 42:2842 minutes, 28 secondsAI to ask certain questions that is making them think a little bit about their things a little bit different way. 42:3342 minutes, 33 secondsNow, the one guy that found us, this is what he said to me, you know, he did whatever he did on the Google search and he goes, "That J manual. I found out 42:4142 minutes, 41 secondsabout that JM." He's like, "I'm a retired engineer. I found out about that JM." He's like, I I had a signed contract with these people and I told 42:4942 minutes, 49 secondsthem if I'm laying $20,000 on the table, they need to lay the J manual on the table. He's like, I have not heard back from them and I have a signed contract with them. That's what the guy told me. 42:5942 minutes, 59 secondsSo, like people are becoming aware of the fact that you need this stuff out there, right? 43:0543 minutes, 5 secondsI think what you still want to do is that AI is helping AI. Like if your website's on AI, then other AI is like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, we need to help this guy." Yep. That's a whole different conversation. But you just hit on 43:1343 minutes, 13 secondssomething that is absolutely the way it's going to be. Like as they exist are dead. People just don't realize it yet. 43:1843 minutes, 18 secondsLike it's going to suck to say that. But here's what's happening right now. Like the technology right now is going away where people are building chat bots that 43:2643 minutes, 26 secondsnow on your website wherever you seen a form and my website's already going to be set up like this. I have a viable chatbot that can take you and close 43:3443 minutes, 34 secondsbusiness in it. But like the thing that we haven't done, what we are going to do, anywhere there's a static form, that's going to be a chatbot because what you're talking about seems like 43:4243 minutes, 42 secondsscience fiction. But in about two years, maybe less, the chat bots are going to be able to talk to the other chat bots on the website and that's all it's going to be. That's the new internet, dude. 43:5143 minutes, 51 secondsThat is the way it's going to be. Wait, so on the way over here, Jeremy stopped to grab a bite to eat and I'm like, "Okay, Bojangles." I mean, sophisticated Bojangles. They're one of the most sophisticated ch franchises out there. 44:0144 minutes, 1 secondOkay. Right. So we pull up and it was actually a chat box, a woman's voice. 44:0744 minutes, 7 secondsHi, welcome to Bojangles. What can I get you started with today? And we were like, oh, we thought it would just be like I'm here and then some other live person would come on take the order. And 44:1544 minutes, 15 secondsit was able to take Jeremy's order and with his alterations and then it asked, "What kind of fixings would you want?" Just I think I want lettuce and tomato. 44:2344 minutes, 23 secondsAnd she was able to say, "No, our sides." And I was like, "Holy cow." And understood exactly crazy. 44:2844 minutes, 28 secondsAnd understood that most people probably don't know what fixings are. and did the whole order. The only time that became a challenge was we went to pick up the order and then the woman says, "Uh, 44:3744 minutes, 37 secondswait, but which order are you and which one did you have?" Yeah. What's your drink? She knew nothing. 44:4144 minutes, 41 secondsWe were both blown away that a chatbot could take his order and be that successful with it. 44:4644 minutes, 46 secondsYeah. No, that was like a Jetson's moment for me. Like it was surreal. Like me and Joe were both looking at each other like blown away. Like I cannot believe that just happened. 44:5444 minutes, 54 secondsI told him you're going to come back a year later and you're like, "Hi, Jeremy. 44:5644 minutes, 56 secondsWould you like a number 13 again with your fixins of a side of fries?" Yeah. 45:0045 minutesIt's not going to be long before it does. People like, "Oh, we can't keep track of all the keeps track of anything and everything." So, it's stunning. 45:0645 minutes, 6 secondsYeah. So, let's talk about AI for just a second. So, we have been embracing AI in MeasureQuick. Okay. And we are very 45:1345 minutes, 13 secondsselective and controlled about it. And for those of you that are like super AI, you understand that you can actually control your own AI, whether you're allowing it to do certain things or 45:2145 minutes, 21 secondswhatever. But we are hyper sensitive to what AI should do and can do in measure quick, right? So we actually have an AI 45:2845 minutes, 28 secondsbot in it and uh we have our profiler is an AI bot. It means you can take a picture and it actually will scan and looking for all the data information 45:3645 minutes, 36 secondsthat's on that data plate and then extrapolate it and put it into your profile for measure quick right so that alone goes only back to measure quick 45:4445 minutes, 44 secondsdirectly. So if you have no internet you can't use our AI profiler. So it's a direct internet connection. You take pictures of the data plates. You can even take pictures of the filter if it's 45:5245 minutes, 52 secondsgot information about the size and we'll put that filter size in the profile. 45:5645 minutes, 56 secondsAlso, you can coil whatever you got a picture of, we will try and extrapolate that information. If you say it's a furnace, we're going to be looking for lots of specific information about that 46:0446 minutes, 4 secondsfurnace from temperature split and pressures and all that kind of stuff and what kind it is. We're looking for the type of refrigerant and hopefully now more companies are going to start 46:1346 minutes, 13 secondsproviding the super reader subcooling on their data label. So all that stuff gets incorporated into MeasureQuick and it's a closed system that we're looking for. 46:2046 minutes, 20 secondsThen we actually go out automatically and go find your install and service manuals or anything else that we can find automatically and it shows up right below that system. You can click on an 46:2946 minutes, 29 secondsicon and go find those. So that's a great simple feature that people are find very effective in reducing the time it takes to put all that into our 46:3746 minutes, 37 secondsprofile. We've also got a chatbot that's built into MeasureQuick right there at the bottom of all the pages. So you can ask it like what is my subcooling even 46:4446 minutes, 44 secondsthough there's a button to do that or why is my sub cooling high and you can still pick on that to do that but people want to interact with stuff now. So we're actually trying to do that more. 46:5246 minutes, 52 secondsThere's some buttons you could do but in general you could ask it questions. You could even take pictures of a circuit board or take pictures of things about that or where would I make my electrical 47:0147 minutes, 1 secondmeasurements on this system. So we're able to use it based upon that and only for HVAC and we're using all of Measure 47:0947 minutes, 9 secondsquick's measurements to give you this information. So we really are trying to close the loop on what AI can do for you as an HVAC technician in the field. 47:1747 minutes, 17 secondsAgain, internet required for those kind of options, but we really are taking the technology of the future and being like, okay, this is now built into what we're 47:2547 minutes, 25 secondsdoing. So we think that this is something that all processes should have is the ability to be smarter than the average app or technician or even Jim Bergman. So, we're pushing it. 47:3347 minutes, 33 secondsYeah. 47:3447 minutes, 34 secondsDoes the chatbot if it comes across something that it can't answer, does it send that somewhere and get help you get it answered or how's it handle that? 47:4147 minutes, 41 secondsNo, we just keep track of those like, oh, that's something we need. It goes back to us like, oh, add this or we need to figure out a solution for that. We would figure that out. We're not going 47:4847 minutes, 48 secondsto chat GBT or anybody else's to find the solution. We're saying we're closed system. So, if you ask it about waffles 47:5647 minutes, 56 secondsor you ask it about where's the nearest, you know, Taco Bell, it says we're being polite. I can't believe Jim was so polite about it. It says, "No, that's beyond our scope." It should have been 48:0448 minutes, 4 secondslike, "Get back to freaking work or use Google to look up where to go for lunch or something. 48:0748 minutes, 7 secondsIs it time for your lunch break?" Yeah. Right. Yeah. But we didn't. We were polite about it. Like, no, that's beyond our scope. So, it's not included in our AI. So, yeah. 48:1548 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. Not that chatbot's cool, though, man. I like that. Especially for these guys out there that are just starting out, all any other little help that they can get because, you know, one of the 48:2448 minutes, 24 secondsbig focuses is our workforce development. And there's a lot of focus on the trades right now, but if we dump a bunch of people into the trades and 48:3248 minutes, 32 secondsthey're not properly trained up or don't have the proper support, then it's just going to be another round of what we just came out of. So there's a big 48:3948 minutes, 39 secondsopportunity here with the reinvigoration of the trades to really get these younger cats, you know, working in the right direction right off the bat, especially with that type of technology. 48:4948 minutes, 49 secondsAnd we also have another level which we're able to do kind of give you a sum of what all of our measurements and the whole report is doing. So you can get an 48:5648 minutes, 56 secondsAI summary that's in the report, but you also can see it and kind of read it before you go talk to your client. And one of which says it's client information. Actually, the language is 49:0549 minutes, 5 secondsto the client. The other one that Jim was very really adamant about is that sometimes your refrigerant charge specifically can be slightly off. It's 49:1349 minutes, 13 secondsenough that if your subcooling should be 10 and you're at nine, maybe a dab of refrigerant would get it to where it's got to go. But is it worth it? Is it 49:2249 minutes, 22 secondsreally worth connecting your hoses, potential risk, other stuff? So, we really have tried to adjust all of our diagnostics and the algorithm to be 49:3049 minutes, 30 secondslike, you know what, it's good. And we would tell you that there is room for improvement, but as it is, this system is operating at what our criteria is. 49:4049 minutes, 40 secondsYou'll still maybe be at a 99, it's not worth chasing that one bit. So, we're trying to remind the technician and homeowner that this is good. You know, 49:4849 minutes, 48 secondsthere's room for improvement, but it's not worth the process of the risk for that. So, there's a variety of things we built into this process as to like you're good, you're very good. 49:5749 minutes, 57 secondsYeah. They call it the 8020 rule, but for for this case, it's probably more like the 9010 rule, but it's still still a good rule or 95 rule. 50:0350 minutes, 3 secondsYeah. But some people just like, "Oh my gosh, there's room for improvement. I got to go add 2 ounces of refrigerant." No, we're trying to discourage that kind of risk on 50:1250 minutes, 12 secondsespecially on Well, you're weighing in and weighing out with these inverters. 50:1450 minutes, 14 secondsBut on them, it's one little bit of refrigerant. You put one more little bit in, it might throw it in the opposite direction, and then you got other problems. 50:2250 minutes, 22 secondsIt could, but just the fact that you're connecting all that stuff is That's true. It's a big Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There ain't no doubt about it. 50:2750 minutes, 27 secondsAnd you used to be like, "Oh, that suck, but that's expensive. Freezer ain't cheap anymore. That's a high risk. 50:3250 minutes, 32 secondsThat's a premium." Yeah. They're not worried about fingers anymore. They're worried about like, "Oh, that cost a lot of money." Yeah. Anything else? Any parting words? 50:3850 minutes, 38 secondsWe usually in our other show, we say, "If you had to leave some advice for everybody coming behind you in a new society, what would you say?" Never stop learning. Never stop 50:4750 minutes, 47 secondsmeasuring. Whatever you dream of that's going to be happening, you think in the industry, in the future, in society, it's not that far away. It's happening. 50:5550 minutes, 55 secondsWe are at an exponential curve of an artist. So my concept used to be like well it used to take us almost 10 to 15 51:0251 minutes, 2 secondsyears to come up with an idea, create a prototype and take it to market. And then once we had 3D printing, we could do it in less than a year. Now we actually do things less than a day. You 51:1251 minutes, 12 secondscan come up with an idea and you can take it to market and do the things that people are dreaming of in a matter of literally no time. The next day you 51:1951 minutes, 19 secondscould have something that you never thought could be imaginable happening. 51:2351 minutes, 23 secondsAI is doing that to us faster than we ever could imagine. I'm a futurologist and I've always been interested in where 51:3051 minutes, 30 secondsis it doing and what we're doing and it won't be that long before your home will be able to help you figure out what it is you need to do to be better in your 51:3951 minutes, 39 secondshouse by asking the questions like wow what can I do to improve my indoor air quality and it's going to tell you that well stop buying those crappy cleaning 51:4651 minutes, 46 secondsproducts that you keep doing that I can see on your list start doing more ventilation open your windows more often so I can see that there's an entire 51:5451 minutes, 54 secondscomplete circle of that our surroundings are going to be smarter than we are. And we need to kind of accept that either you embrace that stuff and let it you 52:0352 minutes, 3 secondsteach it how you want to live or it's going to adjust how you live. 52:0652 minutes, 6 secondsYeah, I agree. And I think one aspect of it that people may not realize is the health industry is really leaning into the AI and there's a lot of like 52:1452 minutes, 14 secondsassisted living for people that are living at home. Like there's a lot of technology that's coming out. Even before, back when I first started in this industry, I had a booth right next 52:2252 minutes, 22 secondsto a guy who was in the home health industry for people that were aging out in their home, so to speak. And there was a lot of tech. He was talking about 52:3052 minutes, 30 secondsa thing that they had even back then where when you stepped out of the bed, it was like a footprint thing and you could step on it and it took all these 52:3752 minutes, 37 secondsvital readings for you. And now with AI being involved in it, I think you're just going to see that type of stuff taking off even more. stuff now. They 52:4652 minutes, 46 secondsactually now have stuff you could put on top of the floor, even below your tile that not only can tell you where the person's at in health, but I can tell you if they fell down. Wow. 52:5452 minutes, 54 secondsYeah. That's that's their now. So then won't be that long before I can tell that your temperatures are off by temperature of your feet or there's a variety of stuff that and you're like, 53:0253 minutes, 2 seconds"Oh, that's obnoxious." But no, if you have your mom or dad living in the home alone, you'd want to know if they fell in the house anywhere, not just that 53:1053 minutes, 10 secondsdevice that they couldn't reach anymore or fell off. and wearables like this, what their vitals are at all time, you know, tracking back to somewhere. Like, there's just so much of it that is good. 53:1853 minutes, 18 secondsAnd then there's the other side of it that people consider evil and nefarious, just like with anything. Societyy's going to have to find a balance in there 53:2553 minutes, 25 secondsbecause AI is here to stay. It's not going anywhere, which is how exponentially fast and smart it is. So, we're less than two years away from having stuff that's the 53:3353 minutes, 33 secondssmartest people. And that's a scary thought. 53:3553 minutes, 35 secondsIt absolutely is. All right, man. It's been good having you on the show. grab me, buddy. 53:3953 minutes, 39 secondsGrabbing me up, coming in, and we're going to hang out the rest of the day and do some cool stuff and not maybe talk about HVAC, even though we probably will talk about HVAC because it's what we do. 53:4753 minutes, 47 secondsNo, we're going to go get some something to eat somewhere else and see what kind of AI stuff they've got there. 53:5153 minutes, 51 secondsLet's go cruise the local restaurants and test out the AI. Yeah. Thanks again, Jeremy. 53:5653 minutes, 56 secondsYes, sir. [music]